Improving Barry

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• The origin of mushrooms
• What to look for when buying functional mushrooms
• What Lion's Mane can do for you
• How Chaga is an antioxidant powerhouse
• How functional mushrooms are adaptogens
• Free Cordyceps for European customers!
• And more…

• The KÄÄPÄ website: https://www.kaapamushrooms.com
• Eric on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ericmtpuro/
• International Medicinal Mushroom Society website: http://www.ismm2013.com/

• For the full transcript, visit: https://www.improvingbarry.com
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[00:00:09] Barry Luijbregts:

Hi, and welcome to another episode of the improving berry podcast.   This week, I am speaking with Eric Perrault He's cofounder and CEO of Kappa Mushrooms.   He's extremely knowledgeable about mushrooms and is also a member of the Executive committee   of the International Medicinal   Mushroom Society.   We spoke about,   Functional mushrooms like lion's mane, ricene,   chaga.   And we spoke about how,   they can be extracted   and grown as well and what you should look for when you buy mushrooms.   Of course, we talked about the benefits of these mushrooms, how they work, Or at least how some of the compounds work, and we also spoke about some of the side effects that these mushrooms can have. It was a very interesting   Conversation, and I'm sure we will also have a part 2 of this.  

I have no association with Kappa Mushrooms, but I do like their products a lot. They are of a very high quality,   and they were very gracious   to give our listeners and viewers,   a discount. So go to kapamushrooms.com,   enter the shop section, and get 15%   off the entire selection with the code berry b fifteen. That is very 15,   and I will also link to all this in the show notes.   Now without further delay, here is Eric.   So again, thank you very much for, for taking the time for being on the podcast.   Really looking forward to this.  

[00:01:43] Eric Puro:

Yeah. Absolutely. Happy to be here. Start.  

[00:01:46] Barry Luijbregts:

Yeah. So,   you sell functional mushrooms   and, several types of them.   I think we can go into,   what those are and what they do for,   people. But before we get into the details of each Of those ones, let's talk a bit general about,   mushrooms in general. As in, you know,   mushrooms are strange things. Right?   They aren't really plants because they also breathe. They have their own immune system.   Are they are they kinda animals, or are they something in between? What do you think? Yeah. It's a good question.  

[00:02:25] Eric Puro:

Well,   I don't know how how much time we have here.   About me. Mushroom, mushroom biology is a, is a fascinating I have a mushroom here. Yeah. It's a fascinating area for me   and, especially our science team. So we're going to international mushroom biology conferences,   annually or every 2 years,   just to kind of keep on, on top of that, because   Basically, mushrooms, you know, they've been around for a long time,   but they're   they're a bit more evolved, let's say, than plants. So what you think of, You know, when, when species start to split off that evolutionary tree,   mushrooms   have split off later than plants, meaning we're more closely related to mushrooms than we are to plants.  

So that's a, that's a fantastic   way of looking at it. We both breathe   Out CO2, we both breathe in oxygen,   and we have a very similar immune system, actually, as as fungi, humans and and fungi.   So we have a lot of related chemical compounds that we share,   and there's a lot of, like,   let's say, synergies that we have with fungi in that way.   And I think that they're,   as a   as a as just a,   you know, a thing that's on this planet,   You know, they really had their boom, let's say, after the dinosaurs got destroyed. Right?   So you had a big a big comet came down, killed all the dinosaurs,   killed a bunch of Plant material, it suffocated the sky. There wasn't enough, photosynthesis that could occur, and you just had this massive   100 meter piles of decaying,   Barely decaying,   wood material,   you know, and that was kind of what we, what scientists call the boom of fucking. So you had this huge increase in the number of species, they started niching out to be able to eat different kinds of wood. You had primary decomposers,   secondary, tertiary,   you know, that would deal with diff the wood at different stages of the decomposition.  

And   they,   they basically, they just started rampant. I mean, you had this explosion of you see this explosion of the Mushroom Kingdom.   And, what you see after that is not a we're we're in a Earth right now that's not dominated by reptiles again. Right. And that coulda happened. There's still reptiles around. There's still alligators. There's those crazy Komodo dragons. Have you ever seen those guys? Insane.   Yeah. Yeah. You know, they're huge, but we're not dominated by reptiles. We're dominated by mammals. Mammals are an entirely new species that happened after this, let's say, dawn of mushrooms.   We actually owe our existence to the fungi.  

So the big difference that we have with reptiles and mammals is that we're warm blooded. Right? So, So right now, I and I'm in Finland, so every morning I go to what's what we call Avanto, which is ice hole. So I go swim I go swimming in the ice hole,   and I get out, and my body's already warming up again.   And I spend a lot of energy and calories to warm up. This is not a A free activity for my for my my body is what it's a lot of energy.   And when we think about, you know, surviving,   energy is food.   So, you know, spending energy needlessly is a really bad strategy to have as a, as a, as a human being or as any sort of creature out there, wanting to survive. So why are we warm blooded? If you look at the temperature that we are so in America, what is it? 98.6.   Here in Europe, about 36.5,   37, something like that.  

This temperature is exactly the temperature that's high enough to reduce fungal infections.   Okay.   So the this this temperature that we have is not something that just is random.   You know, we evolved to get warmer, warmer, warmer, warmer, warmer until the fungi quit trying to eat us,   and then we stopped.   Right? So that so we coevolve with fungi.   A lot of our body, you know, our our microbiome,   for instance, you know, is is probably our largest organ by weight, you know, if you think of it like that. So we have so much synergy, so much coevolution, so much   coadaptation,   and a lot of the main things that define us as mammals,   are there from pressures of fungi?  

You know, so what do you, you know, the only fungal infections you probably hear people do is they have a Foot, foot, you know, we call it athlete's foot, I think. Right? You get the fungal infection in your toes. Yeah. And that's only because it's colder.   Right?   So, I mean, it's just a it's a fantastic thing, and I think Wow. You know, my my journey with fungi,   using them for medicine is just one thing that our company does. But I think that it's just this, this amazing, let's say we unwrap all these different layers and, and you go deeper and you Serta, it's really a fascinating kingdom to explore. It's so much more complex, let's say, than plants.  

[00:07:03] Barry Luijbregts:

Yeah. Absolutely. And wow, that's   Fascinating to think about. So,   it could have gone very differently if we didn't evolve that way. Perhaps fungi,   would have taken over if you look at cordyceps, for instance, how they take over, insects   and make them do what whatever they want. Yeah. Fungi are extremely powerful   things, creatures, whatever they are.   So we we we survived. We won from the fungi for now, least.  

[00:07:33] Eric Puro:

Okay. But for how long?  

[00:07:35] Barry Luijbregts:

And  

[00:07:36] Eric Puro:

yeah. But but for how long? Well, at least, You know? Now we're cultivating them for, our own benefit, and hopefully, that will expand as well, like what your company is doing. Yeah. Is this a benefit for us, or is it a benefit for the fungi? Who's farming who? I mean, who's who's who's man who's manipulating who there? Right? I mean I mean, I, I, I, so we have an outdoor mushroom farm. We have indoor mushroom farm. We cultivate mushrooms all over Finland. We have partners all over Europe. And, you know, basically what, what we're doing right now, all day long in our lab is sterilizing   substrate, inoculating it with fungi, and we're basically feeding them.  

And so who, you know, who are who's in control of that relationship?   You know, it's like they, that's a, that's an excellent question. Yeah. It's like leafcutter ants, because species of ant, it's also farming fungi. Yeah. But I mean, who's actually farming who? I mean, that fungi actually can't survive without the ants, and the ants can't survive without the fungi. So we tend to have this sort of human centric, you know, let's say, understanding of the natural world. Oh, the ants are farming the fungi. Or is it that the fungi has convinced the ants to go get it through, and it doesn't have to do almost anything? You know?  

[00:08:42] Barry Luijbregts:

I think it's probably that. Yeah. Because if you look at cordyceps, for instance, how clever that is, how clever it invades, these ants and stuff and makes it makes them do things. I think   they might actually be   influencing us to do all this stuff, even if we don't know it, if we have some little spores in ourselves.   But understand For sure. Who knows?   So you already,   touched on how you, grow these fungi. Maybe you can go into,   how you extract them as well because you do that in a very special way. Right?  

[00:09:15] Eric Puro:

Yeah. That's true.   Yeah. Well, I think just just generally for your listeners. I mean,   you know, I think probably most people are, are here listening to this to see what can fungi do for me. Right. And I think that that's like, obviously why we, you know, why we care about fungi mainly.   How can they help humans? How can they help our health?   How can they help this? I call, I call this thing the horse, this, this body of mine, this horse, it's my vehicle to travel this, this life experience with.   And you gotta keep the horse healthy. You gotta water the horse. You gotta make sure the horse is sleeping well. You gotta hydrate the horse. You gotta feed the horse, All those things. And I think when we think about,   just those daily needs that we have, that our body needs,   fungi are are a crucial ally for that. So,   you know, you can call it biohacking, or you can call it health optimization,   or you could call it improve- just improving your life, whatever. But I would say that,   taking supplements in general is just usually a good idea, you know, unless, unless you're really careful.  

And so I would say   With fungi, what you have to be careful about we could go into details on each kind of fungi, what what health benefits they have. But in general, just general sort of decisions. When you're looking at buying, a fungal product to help with your health, you wanna make sure a couple things. You wanna make sure that you know where it's grown, how it's grown,   Because fungi are bioaccumulators.   What not what that means is that, you know, you probably heard about,   it's called mycoremediation,   So mycology remediation, so fungi   remediating.  

And it's a tech, it's a sort of discipline where you can use fungi to clean up oil spills, to clean up brown sites, industrial sites to clean up plastics,   because they're really good at taking things out of the I mean, that's their niche. Right? I mean, they just search around till they can find food. Yeah. And then they, then they take that in. So we can train them to eat a lot of stuff, but generally they're really good at bioaccumulating,   taking nutrition and, and whatever out of the soil. So you have to know where your mushrooms are grown. That's really important   because heavy metals can be a problem. Pesticides can be a problem. Things that are like not such a big deal with plants   are a huge deal with fungi. So when you think about they need to be organic, for sure, And you need to trust the organic, authority that's doing that kind of certification.  

And you need to research, though, a bit what, what are the pesticides that are being tested? Because,   you know, Toxins, anything that's in the soil or the rain or whatever is gonna probably get into the fungi product. So it's a little bit different to think of it than plants.   So that's why, You know, we grow everything here in Europe, with European authorities and and do all of our production here in Europe. So we're we're a unique company in that way.   92% of all mushrooms are grown in China.   And, you know, there are very good farms in China, but there's also   not so great ones. And, the regulation there is not up to par as it is here in Europe.  

So   that's one thing to just be conscious of, just to think Where are your mushrooms being grown? And then the other one is to think, how are they being extracted?   Because just like we got, we kind of zoomed real far out at the start of this conversation about mammals and Are we?   Bentovine, we have really good guts to break down plants, and we have absolutely horrible guts to break down mushrooms. So, You know, many of your listeners, maybe you in general, you know, if you have a gut sensitivity   of any kind at all, mushrooms are gonna make you, they're gonna hurt your stomach.   They're gonna make you farty, gassy. It's not a pleasurable experience usually to eat mushrooms. They taste good, but the reason that's happening is that the, the cell wall of,   Plants is called cellulose. And so we've adapted and evolved a a gut,   microbiome and a and a system to break that stuff down Day in, day out, no problem. Just keep, we can keep doing it. Cows can do it. Many mammals can do that. So eating plants, is no, no, no issue.  

But with fungi,   they have a chitine cell wall, and this chitine cell wall is really, really, really strong. So it's very difficult for our bodies to break that down.   So that's why, when you, when you look at mushroom products, they talk about being extracted   and that's effectively what the extraction process is. It's, It's opening up that cell wall so that all those really interesting secondary metabolites   and healthy, you know, functional compounds that are inside are now bioavailable for your body to absorb through your usually large intestine.   And so, you know, you have to think about how that's being extracted. Is it, Is it only hot water? Is it not extracted at all? Are you just eating mushroom powder? So that's like the worst. Maybe you're, that's about a 5% bioavailability.  

If you're doing a water extraction, it boosts it maybe a couple percent, maybe you're now at 7, 8% bioavailability.   So meaning, You know, 90 something percent is just traveling through your intestine and just going out the other end. Yeah. And then, you know, a lot of companies are raising that with alcohol.   So they're using alcohol as a chemical solvent.   And alcohol is a chemical solvent. As it's touching the chitine cell wall, will dissolve it, so to open it up.   But this process takes months, many, many months,   about 3 months at minimum.  

And it takes a lot of shaking and agitation to help help, help that process go. And so many companies are using alcohol, but then they're not doing it for free. They're not doing it efficacious, let's say, dual extraction. So, Yeah. You know, it's not 3 months long and, and shaking it a couple times a day and all this kind of thing.   So, so what then ends up happening is that the Dual extraction, even at its best, you know, 3 months shaking, you're getting maybe 50% bioavailability.   And so, of course, if it's, if it's much less time in alcohol, this kind of thing, it goes down.   So when our company, we'll look at the whole situation when we started the, when we started the company, was to go, Hey, how do we do this in the best way? You know, we're gonna reinvent this thing. We're not gonna take anything that, that people have been doing for 1000 of years. We're gonna look at this from a fresh standpoint.  

We have a great science team that we, we dedicated to just figuring out about, you know, extraction and how to make this bioavailable.   And what we came to was a technology called UAE or ultrasonification.   And ultrasonification   is effectively using these,   Really high energy sound waves.   And when they cross paths, they have it like a minor implosion   that then breaks apart these, these cell walls. It's a technology that's been being used in the CVB space,   to really make those really high potent, liquid extracts.   So we said, okay, great. Now the infrastructure's starting to get built up, CVB is becoming a big thing in North America. There's some companies that we can look to, to how to, how to do this. And then we did about 2 years of R and D work, before we kind of decided what our, what our standard operating procedure is gonna be for that. And now we've done tests on our material and we're over 90, 92% bioavailability.  

So you can think that, you know, proper extracted mushroom products, you're gonna get much more bang your buck, you know, taking 1 milliliter   extract of a 2 of a UAE extraction is like taking half a milliliter,   star, sorry, is taking like 2 or 3 milliliters, 4 milliliters of something like,   dual extract.   So it's just something to be careful and think about, you know?   And, and that's the, that's the thing I think right now with the mushroom industry is that everyone's getting excited, Like, you and and your listeners, you know, okay, what are these fun guys? How can they help me? Oh my god. Everyone I know oh, I know this guy taking Reshi for sleep, and he said it improved his life. And I know this guy using Cortez pre workout. Oh my God.   And then the guy that I know who's always doing the longevity stuff has taken Chaga. But but, you know, what does it actually do? And that's where it's complicated,   You know, and that's where you have to kind of dig a bit deeper into science.  

I would say in 10, 15 years, you know, this will be the standard. This, this quality thing will be the standard for all company, But we're just not there yet, you know, so you gotta be a little careful.   Yeah. Yeah.  

[00:16:57] Barry Luijbregts:

Okay. So that's very good to know. So You need to take a look at, where this thing is grown. Is it, you know, the soil where where it is grown? Is that clean? How it is extracted ideally with a technology like yours? So is is it bioavailable   or not? And I assume that that's the same for your tinctures as your powders. Right? Because you also sell powders. Yeah. Yeah. So  

[00:17:20] Eric Puro:

the main main production is is we make the extract liquid. And then what we do to make the powder is this, we just freeze dry   it. And so freeze drying is a technique, but it's not adding too much heat to the process. So,   You know, if you're, if you're gonna spray dry it, what we've learned is that you actually have to, condense it. So you have to, you know, condense the liquid, you know, make it, make it thicker, and then send it for the spray dryer. And both those steps include many hours at really high temperatures.   And, over 50 degrees Celsius, you start to see degradation of secondary metabolites.  

So we said, okay, how can we, you know, we're never gonna be a huge mass market product. You know, we're always gonna be a bit niche for the people that really want the best quality stuff.   So, you know, let's, how do we do that? And then that's where we kind of referred to this,   freeze drying technology. So that's been perfect. Absolutely fantastic.   You know, like, when we did beta glucan testing, which is a large secondary metabolite, say most of the, mushrooms.   It's, you know, 20% more from freeze drying to spray drying as well, what we saw across the board. It just was drastic increase for our products.   So so we just said, yep, that's it. That's what we do now.  

But yeah, in general, you know, you have to extract powders, liquids, whatever you find, however you're, you know, I'm taking, liquid just in some coffee right now,   cause it's just easy to add, but, you know, across the board, you know, powders, liquids, whatever it might be.   It's just good you, you extract them properly for sure.  

[00:18:50] Barry Luijbregts:

Yeah.   Okay. So extraction methods, where is it grown? And then is there also a difference between   what Parts you use. So there's the fruiting bodies, right, of the mushrooms, and there's also,   the mycelium   of the mushrooms, the things that are underground. Is there a difference in,   benefits from from both of those? Yeah.  

[00:19:12] Eric Puro:

Yeah. It looks like you've been doing your homework. I mean, I think many people don't, don't, don't know about this kind of kind of debate, let's say, in the industry because it's, it's mainly,   let's say, a pretty industry specific debate right now.   But this is this is pretty much   so so this is a a question that that came up about 5 years ago. We started seeing large companies such as, in, in North America,   wanting to have an alternative to Chinese imported mushrooms,   and they wanted to make a US domestic source. And so they started going, okay,   growing all these mushrooms is actually very complex. It's very difficult,   and it's expensive and it's a huge   upfront investment.  

So what they, what they decided to work on was what's called mycelium on grain.   And so mycelium on grain is a technique to grow the mycelium of the fungi,   and fermenting solid state substrate. So usually that's grain,   food grade organic grain.   And this is a process that is incredibly cheap. It's very fast. You know, from start to end is about 2 weeks, roughly.   And then, you know Wow. Wow. That, Yeah, it's very fast. And then these companies are able just to take that block that, that now is fermented and totally white, now it's been colonized by all the mycelium,   You can dry this out, you can grind it, and then boom, you have a powder. So you could go from nothing to this end final product within 2 weeks.  

And,   the problem here is, is, is multiple fold, I would say. So the, the largest problem with this kind of product is that,   the final product is actually, one, it's not extracted,   you know, at all, but the biggest problem is actually 95%   grain.   So, you know, you go to the, you go to whole foods, you go to Iverm, you go to Amazon and you're looking for a high quality, you know, mushroom product.   And what you end up buying is 95% grain product.   And, but, but to a food supplement that's 95% grain, that's crazy. I mean,   And, and you're paying maybe a euro per dose per day. It's just, it's too much. So   I think that from that standpoint, it's   Nothing else needed to be discussed. I mean, you know, my cinnamon grain is just it's, it's tempeh.  

It's a fermented grain product. It's it may be healthy food, But as a food supplement, to get any benefit from it, we haven't seen a single study. 0.   So I'm I'm on the executive committee of the International Medicinal Mushroom Society,   and our I was honored due to be accepted to this, executive committee due to our work with Bailey Chaga growing, which I could talk about a bit later, but But that that's a really honorable position. There's only 1 international medicinal mushroom society in the world where all the researchers across are, are submitting papers and new research due to get published. So we're reviewing all the time, you know, new, new, much of the research that comes out. There's nothing about the mycelium on grain zero. It doesn't exist. There's some company, you know, sponsored studies.   But again, you know, these, you need to take with a grain of salt, and they don't even not show that great results.  

So I think that it's you gotta be really careful here. But   but in general,   You know,   the when you think of mushroom,   mushroom this this is a mushroom   is the, the fruiting body part of the fungi.   So this is for instance, a, a shelf, a bracket fungi that I used to actually, it, it, you can see the holes in there. It keeps my, my pens   up my desk.   You know what   This would be also a fungi. This is Reishi, for instance.   So this is the what's called the fruiting body. Okay. The fruiting body is, is the mushroom. Mushroom is the fruiting body. It's the same interchangeable word. We tend to call mushroom   anything with, with, with the fungi kingdom mushrooms. The mycelium is the mushroom.  

We just call it all mushrooms. So technically, you know, there's a fruiting body, which is the mushroom, and then there's the mycelium.   And when we think about debating between mushrooms versus mycelium,   Now that's a more interesting conversation, and, and there are ways to grow pure mycelium.   So you could, for instance, get what's called a bioreactor. We have some here in the company where, you can put a sugar mixture in there with the mycelium,   and it starts to grow. Then you can drain that liquid, and you can condense that mycelium   solid, and you can have a powder that's pure mycelium.  

And this is an interesting product in a way to look at. What we haven't We've only been able to find 1 compound   in 1 species   that's beneficial   in the mycelium.   So when we think about, you know, okay, from a medicinal, like, fungal place, it's 99.999%.   The actual mushroom,   fruiting body contains all the compounds, but there is 1 compound in 1 species that is beneficial. So I think that it's,   It's kind of this debate that doesn't exist in science, but it exists, let's say in the industry,   and, and with some companies, but it doesn't exist in science. This is, There's no debate there. You know, when we have our international medicinal mushroom Congress, there's, there's no one really there discussing these kind of mycelium things at all.  

[00:24:14] Barry Luijbregts:

No. No. Makes sense. So okay. So if you're buying mushrooms,   take a look at where they are grown, how they are extracted, And if they are fruiting bodies or not. And hopefully, that's on the on the packaging or on the bottle or off your website. Yep.  

[00:24:28] Eric Puro:

Okay. But you gotta dig sometimes. I mean, really, you know, I know, I know, you do. One of the largest companies in who's selling medicinal mushroom products in the UK, They don't mention anything that it's mycelium on grain until you go to their label, and then their label contains grain. Why? Why does it contain grain? So I think that, you know, one of the problems too, is that the regulatory authorities that are looking at this thing, they don't know. They don't they, they call mushrooms whatever. I mean, Oh, yeah. That's white weird thing from fungi. That's a mushroom too. So they don't know how to really   control this.  

So basically there's, there's the FDA in the US, which is a governing controlling body. They've recently re required now labeling requirements. So   if you're having a mushroom, a mycelium product, you can't call it a mushroom. You can't include photos of mushrooms on your product, all that.   But of course they have a limited enforcement. And then same here with EFSA, European Food Safety Authority, they're doing the same. So this mycelium product,   products are actually, they're called unapproved novel food, which means they're actually not allowed to bring to market. But, you know, there's countries that are very much more open to this kind of stuff, like Netherlands, right? That's, that's saying, Hey, we can do a, let's be a little bit more open. You can still find these products, let's say for sure in Europe.  

[00:25:40] Barry Luijbregts:

Mhmm. Okay.   Unfortunately.   Okay. But, yeah, maybe that will change in the future. Okay.   Okay.   Let's now talk about,   specific mushrooms and why they are helpful for people. Right? So The things that you guys, sell.   Maybe we can start with Lion's Mane. That's one, that I also take on a regular basis From your company, by the way. I like the taste. There is a little bit of alcohol in that tincture as you were   discussing just now.   What is Lion's Mane, and and why should you take that?  

[00:26:14] Eric Puro:

Yeah. Well, couple things. So I think, you know, one, Our company uses alcohol as a way to keep the extract liquid,   shelf stable.   So the alcohol ensures that, you know, colony forming units or anything that starts to grow in there is killed. So it, so it says 3 years shelf stable.   We're actually now shifting to a new,   a new way to keep shelf stability without the alcohol.   So actually within probably 3 months, we're gonna remove alcohol from all of our products. I would say that this is probably like the number one, how do you say asked, you know, requests from customers   is how can we get the alcohol out? Because you're taking a healthy product and now you have alcohol. There's like this dissidents that happens, I think, with customers. So we're excited to microdose of alcohol. Yeah. Yeah. It's a hermetic effect for sure. I mean, I think stress is good for a I very I, like I said, I go ice hole something every morning. I love stress. You know, I'm the CEO of this company. I'm on the board of a few companies. I mean, I love stress.  

Yeah.   Yep. So, okay, about the, about the benefits of lion's manes, so I would say,   you know, this is probably 40, 50% of our sales. I mean, it's just crazy. This 1 mushroom. I mean, it's just so popular.   And we're really, really proud to, to have the products out that we have because   Lion's   Mane is   so let me back up. I think there's I think the interest there is really coming out of this biohacking community or,   You know, early adopters to the, to the food supplement space, because they're looking at clinical trials that show there's over 20 now that in vivo trials showing reduction of risk of Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, and dementia, or, or indicating the re the reduction of that risk for Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, and dementia. And there's a lot of researchers now working on what they call the method of action   or kind of how that's happening. And we have, we, we know so much now over like over 30 years. It's amazing.  

And, you know, now we know that that actually there's a compound   in lion's mane in our products called haricenone.   And Herosinone is a small secondary metabolite in lion's mane. We don't know yet why lion's mane produces this. We also don't know why lion's mane looks like a brain. You know, I don't know if you have the ability to edit in a picture of lion's mane, or if you, if you don't, then someone, you go, if you're listening to this and you're on a computer, Google lion's man fruiting body, but It looked like a brain tumor. So something is weird, but this compound can cross the blood brain barrier.   And anytime we talk about things crossing the blood brain barrier, You know, scientists get really interested in that because   our blood brain barrier is effectively there to stop   Weird things coming in. I mean, you know, a lot of stuff can enter our blood, but a lot of that's filtered out before that blood goes into our brain. And so we have a very strict, membrane process to, to filter out, you know, bad stuff from getting in our brain for obvious reasons,   toxins and things like this. So very few things cross the blood brain barrier.  

So when we think about,   what this compound does   is   activates,   what's called nerve growth factor in our brains. And nerve growth factor,   NGF, some people call it, is a really important   aspect to our brains and when we think about   how nerve growth factor,   you know, why do we care that it's activating nerve growth factor? And I mean, Okay. It's good. It's nice, you know, but why do we need more of that?   If you look at like a, like a chart, a line chart of nerve growth factor in your brain, as you age, It starts to decrease.   You save a lot when you're a kid,   right?  

And as you get older, the production of NGF starts to go down.   So, okay, so what? What does it do? Right? Why do we care? A lot of stuff goes down as we can become adults.   Hopefully emotional   goes up. You know, all these things, right? We change. So,   okay, NGF is, is really responsible for neurogeneration,   Creating new   neurogenesis.   It, it, it's, it really flushing out,   amyloid beta plaques, which build up over time also. So it's, it's really important for this kind of earliest childhood development. Right? You're learning a language in like a year, you know, learning the 1st time you see a tree, the 1st time you drive a car, the 1st time, 1st time, 1st time. And so you're really in this, in this brain expansion activity massively.   And as we all know, we have words to describe it as, I don't know where my keys are. I have half Alzheimer's or half Highverse, or, you know, I'm just in my thirties. We start to forget stuff and we make excuses and we, we accept that this is how   the, our, our horse works. Right? We accept that this is, this is how this horse works. Yeah. Yeah. But as we age, we start to become a little bit stupider, and we can't remember stuff, and our memory goes down, And our ability to comprehend new things goes down. But then we always see examples of people that, that just seem to get better as they're older, some of these chess grandmasters and things like this.  

And statistically, when tested, those people have very high NGF levels.   So the professor who who discovered NGF back in, like, the sixties,   She goes, holy shit. This is a really important, you know, compound for the brain. I need to supplement this. So, hey, no big deal. Right? We supplement vitamin D. We take a pill.   Boom. You know? In Finland, we have no sun   ever except the summer, so we have to take vitamin D. We supplement it. But if you supplement NGF, it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier.   So what she was doing was taking injections into her eyeball.   And of course, then it's going directly into your brain because the, you know, that, that stem. So many people don't wanna take eyeball injections. There's definitely some buying hacks. I don't wanna see nobody. For sure, there's some biohackers who are taking eye injections of NGF back in the day. Oh sure. Yeah.  

So she was the OG biohacker for sure.   But, you know, the benefit is that recently we found that lion's mane, as this strange compound,   does cross the blood brain barrier, and when it gets there, it It increases NGF factor of 4 to 8 times, depending.   So, woah. Okay.   Totally next level, you know, in in information.   And, and like I said before, NGF goes up, what do you have? You have neurogenesis,   neuroplasticity   increasing.   You have, reduction in amyloid beta plaque, which eventually that will cause Dementia. So amyloid beta plaque buildup. Yes. It's the, you had kind of crusty,   dendrites and, and things in your brain, and then it, you, the dementia. So, You know, if you wanna have a functioning healthy brain, I, I, I mean, I can't think of any other supplement than lion's mane that, that's more beneficial to that.  



[00:32:41] Barry Luijbregts:

And you say it's nerve growth factor. So that sounds like a, a general thing. Right? So you don't only have nerves and such in your brain, but also throughout your whole body, where, you also have BDNF,   brain derived,   Nootropic factor? Nootropic factor, I think it is. Yep. Nootropic factor, yes, which then also helps with neuroplasticity   and the growing   New connections in the brain, which is very brain specific. So the question is,   is nerve growth factor from Lion's Mane, is that an also beneficial   for your overall nervous system, not just only for your brain function. Yeah. This is actually much little much more littler known,  

[00:33:20] Eric Puro:

Let's say, but yes. So there's also studies showing increase of your, let's say stomach and gut health   because those are also a lot of nerve connections.   And, and, and now we know more, so much more about the connections between our gut and our, and our mind,   that we know that this is also important to focus on as well. But I think that, you know,   The reason, you know, most people know about the brain of lion's mane is that that's just something that everyone's super hyper focused about.   We can train our bodies. That's a decision we make. We make a decision to go to the gym, to go running. We make a decision to go into the ice hole. You know, those kind of things, we we do that. But for our brain, what, what do we do?   Right. So I think that that that's just a way that, you know, most companies are connecting with customers a little bit better to say, Hey, this is really helping your brain, but you're absolutely right. It, it's also improving, you know, your gut nervous system as well, and pretty much your whole body.  

Right.   But I'd say that the one interesting thing to know about lion's mane is that, you know, a lot of the studies are showing, you know, you need to take it for 30 days.   So take a break after 30 days, but like you take it every morning. I do, I do as well. I take breaks, but I take at least 30 day Regimens. If I go traveling, I do, I, I just continue to take it. And,   you know, you wanna do 30 day intervals. It doesn't you hear some Instagram videos and things of People going, I, you know, I gotta work real hard today. I'm gonna take lion's man's gonna help my brain. It doesn't work that way. It doesn't do this instant   Mental focus. Oh my God, I'm gonna, I'm gonna excel today at life. Yeah. Because I took vitamins made in the morning. No, no, no. You really need a regimen. You gotta be disciplined. You gotta take it every morning or every night. Doesn't really matter. Morning, I just add it to my coffee, and then it's easy.  



[00:34:59] Barry Luijbregts:

Right. And that's also because it is,   stimulating those nerve growth factors which then work over time. But is that also because it is and all of these other mushrooms also are adaptogenics.   Right? Yeah. That's a that's a word that they use.  

[00:35:14] Eric Puro:

What what does that mean that that it's a that it isn't adaptogenic? What is that? That's a good that's a good question. So I don't know. I I think that there's an actual definition for this word, and I did remember looking it up one time.   But I think that we all share a different idea of that, And we all call different herbs adaptogenic in a way, but, but my, my kind of definition is really that, you know, adaptogenic mushrooms or adaptogenic herbs in general,   are helping to   like, moderate or immunomodulate   our, our bodies. So they kind of just, you know, things are too, too crazy they can calm things down. Things that are too, you know, relaxed and, and lazy, it, it kind of speeds things up. So it's kind of modulating,   adaptogenic modulating. That's how I kind of view it. And so that's why taking mushrooms every day is also good. So with lion's mane, we just talked a lot about, you know, the main secondary metabolite,   markers that, for instance, our company looks at. Is harerasinones.  

But you know, the main compound in these mushrooms that exist, that have like hundreds of years of studying around it, are beta D glucans,   and specifically 1316   branching glucans.   And these glucans are unique to fungi, so not,   and mushrooms.   So mushrooms of fungi, so not algae, not oats, you know, bay, if people talk about beta glucans and oats as well, but, but the fungi beta glucans have a, the reason I mentioned the branching structure, 1316,   is that that's the longest branching structure beta glucan that we know about.   And the longer that branching structure is, the more complex it can be. So you start to see a lot more benefits from longer, longer branching structure, beta glucans.  

Yeah, sometimes you'll see, You know,   oats have 90% beta glucan product or algae. They're not so popular in the market anymore because we know that, You know, but basically you're looking for fungal beta glucans, just, just to make it easy. And fungal beta glucans, what they do when they've they're the main adaptogenic   aspect to the, to the, to the fungi.   And when they're, when they're in your body and you digest them, when they're in a, in a bioavailable form, they easily go through your large intestine,   then they start interacting with your immune system at a very, very interesting ways. So it's working with macrophages,   with killer T cells,   and it's really starting to go, okay, You know, with the cytokines,   which are kind of like the, the managers of your immune system, like, okay, go do this, go do there, go do this kind of stuff. They're really activating those cytokines and sort of, try going, Hey, oh my God, there's long term inflammation over here.  

Go deal with that. You know, you, you need to do your job. Or, you know, you have an autoimmune problem. You're too overactive.   You need to calm down. You can't be attacking yourself.   So, so in a way, our immune systems, they're not perfect.   Like, they're not perfect at all. And for anyone that, that, that thinks that, Just start to ask your friends and you're gonna find people with Crohn's disease.   You're gonna find people with like, cancer. You know, you're gonna find people with out of control lumps on their body for no reason. I mean, Our immune systems kind of suck, and they need a little bit of challenging. And so the way that I think about it is,   You know, we, we tried, we tried my, my parents' generation. I don't know how old you are. I'm, 36,   but my parents' generation, they were all about Having a bleach bottle, you know, my mom had a bleach bottle in her tool belt, you know, in a way, and she was like, okay, the kids are here   spray all this stuff, wipe it down. No, No disease Yeah. Same here. Same here. Yeah. It's like, we learned that this is not a good idea. Right? We need to have a little bit of challenge always for our immune system.  

It's the same thing in our company. We work a lot in our, in our clean laboratory, and we have these HEPA filters filtering out 99.999%   of the air.   We don't let people be there for more than 3 hours shift a day because what happens is in, in Japan, they have a law. In Europe, there's no law Regulating the health and safety of workers around clean rooms, but in Japan, they do. So when I was in Japan, I was at a factory and I realized they did a study on their workers and found out If you're in a clean room for more than 3 hours a day, you start to have sick leave because your immune system goes, what am I doing here? I don't need to do it. You know, there's no, there's no toxins in this room at all. There's nothing Challenging me. I'm gonna peace out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that sick leave went way up. So in Japan,   basically they, they, the regulation there is that if you are 3 more than 3 hours in a clean room,   it's actually dangerous for your health.  

So this is a totally, you know, crazy concept for for anyone, say in our preparedness innovation to to even understand,   that actually, we need to have something challenging our immune system. We co evolve With so much gut bacteria and raw meat and a bunch of stuff that's challenging us that we need that.   So one, one way to ensure that your, your immune system is Getting challenged either to calm it down or to raise it up is by taking a daily mushroom supplement. And the nice thing is, is that if you're taking Lion's Mane for brain health, you still get, I mean, our powder, I think is like 40, 42% beta glucans.   So you're getting a really nice dose of this anyway. So even if you're taking Chaga for the antioxidants and the longevity or whatever else, you're still getting those beta glucanine.  

So that, that I'd say is, is a general,   You know, that's a general compound that's, that's in all the mushrooms and it's, that's the, you know, adaptogenic, you know, modulatory,   type of, type of,   Let's say experience there.  

[00:40:27] Barry Luijbregts:

Right. And that stuff then,   kinda trains the immune system. Right? I I view it like it's exercise.   So it's trying to exercise the immune system, and that's why that can take a while because, you know, just like if you are going to exercise in the gym, that can take a while before you get stronger and before you, let's say, become   in in homeostasis,   become   before everything is is normal again, let's say. So you need to give this a while, and that's why you also said, you know, it,   it will not work if you say, well, I'm I have in this,   interview, and I'm just gonna put some lion's mane in there, and now I'm way smarter   immediately,  

[00:41:05] Eric Puro:

15 minutes later. That's just not gonna work. Doesn't work that way. No. No. I wish it did. I think everyone would then realize, oh my God, this is great. And that's the thing is you have to trust the science. You have to trust, you know, and that's, and that's, you have to be able to read those papers. It's a, you know, like   that, that's what makes it, it's a disconnection.   If it was an immediate action, if, If it would if it was this big ceiling,   then I think it would be different. But  

[00:41:30] Barry Luijbregts:

Yeah. So apart from lion's mane, what is your,   Next then, maybe favorite mushrooms,   that you sell.  

[00:41:37] Eric Puro:

Yeah. For me, I think   the next the 2 other biggest sellers we have is,   Chaga and Reshi,   those are the big 3 for us.   And I think it's not because of the really big benefit that they all have. It's just that those 3, you know, you can take daily, and maybe shouldn't take daily depending.   And so they just have more volume of sales in that way.   So like we, like we mentioned, Lion's Mane, you know, to take daily,   is really important for, for, for brain health, but also the ne the epigenetic properties.   You know, Chaga is if we think about One of the ways that we age,   we think about,   free radicals   entering into our body. Right? We can have those from stress, alcohol,   many different factors, frying olive oil, water, these pre radicals, and then we, then we eat the food.  

Brown bits. If you grill meat, you know, if you're, if you're in Spain and you're getting, going down to the beach and you're getting grilled fish at Blackbaud, that also can contain a lot of free radicals as well. So   we're gonna have incoming based on our diet and based on our lifestyle, we're gonna have free radicals that, that, that build up. And basically they're just kind of zipping and bouncing around our bodies, and whatever they smash into, they just kind of destroy.   So, okay. No big deal. Right? I mean, they hit our, our, our cells of our skin or our hair,   we regenerate these things. Right? Now, depending on the organ, we're generating those cells between   Some hair, you know, hair, skin cells can be monthly   almost.  

Yeah. Versus maybe 7 years for some organs. So, okay. We're always regenerating those cells. So who cares if they get destroyed? Right.   But what if it hit the DNA or RNA of that cell? Yeah. Now how does that cell regenerate?   It has a really tough time to do that. So the DNA RNA is giving the instruction for how that sell, how to regenerate, how to make itself again. And if that's broken or, or, or disrupted, that's why you start to see old people's, You know, skin not look so great or the hair not, you know, not look so great or organs start to spill. That's one of the major processes for aging. So how could we, how could we solve that?   Well, we could all stop eating   blackened meat. We could start using only high heat cooking oil. You know, they're okay. Stop drinking alcohol. We could do all that.  

Or you could live a great life and, and take low, high level antioxidants.   And so we all know about antioxidants. We know they're healthy for us. We know we should include them in our diet.   We know, you know, blueberries, especially these wild blueberries from Finland, you know, can have Really high levels of antioxidants. Acacia berry is also,   and, and if we think about plants, you know, the highest levels of antioxidants that we're finding are, are about What we use, we use a test to, to find that out called Oric and Oric is doing sort of a, a test on the antioxidant   capacity it's called. So it's an in vitro test. It's out of your body, but it's an anti accident capacity test. And we're looking at ORIC values of about 8,000, 10,000 with plants.  

Chaga,   250,000.   So when we're thinking about, you know, what is really providing us with antioxidants,   it's it's it's Chaga. Chaga is the powerhouse there. And when we start to do any more detailed tests, like in, in vivo testing, in, in human body testing, or, or testing with,   human cells in a petri dish to see how they degrade over time.   Chaga is just outperforming everything. So, So I take it, lion's made a chug every morning.   Because I wanna have a high level of antioxidants. I wanna keep, looking like I'm, I don't know, 22. I have no idea. But I just want, I wanna have, I don't care so much about what my skin looks like or my hair, but my organs, that's important to me. Yeah. You know, I wanna keep those guys healthy.   So I, I take chaga every day. It's a very important mushroom for me, and it's unique to Finland. So, you know, chaga is growing wild,   pretty much all over Finland on birch trees.  

And it's not decomposing that tree. It's actually kind of sucking out all the, the juices from the living tree, and then converting those to a form that's, let's say mainly bioavailable for humans.   So chaga is just, it's not only a, you know, A healthy mushroom that, that, that I enjoy taking, that I clearly see a benefit for myself, but it's also something that I commute with when I go walk in the forest or, You know, just notice in my daily practice, it's, it's just always, I'm driving the car. Oh yeah. There's chaga there. Okay, great.   Now, and it's something that, you know, in parts of Finland, especially Eastern Finland, you could be offered,   chaga tea or coffee equally at people's houses. So it's been part of the traditional, let's say, you know, health and healthy medicine, practice here in Finland for a long time.  

Wow. Okay. So that's part of the culture there. Yeah. Not not huge, but in Eastern Finland, I'd say it's still it's still there.  

[00:46:16] Barry Luijbregts:

Right.   Okay.   And,   so   when I look at your website, you know, I I also want, like, cordyceps, for instance. I I've taken that for a while. It's very good for,   for performance, for endurance, things like that.   You don't sell that at least yet. Is is that in the works?  

[00:46:36] Eric Puro:

Yeah. So we, we grow mon, we grow Cortisette milicatus   and we've grown it for 5 years. So our, we're the only company we know of in Europe growing Cortesepe and Luticatis. It's a very difficult mushroom to grow because as you mentioned earlier,   it's parasitic to insects. It's taking over their brains. So how, how the hell do you grow this without insects being destroyed all the time and have, You know, PETA animal rights, people coming and knocking at our door.   It's not an easy mushroom to grow and   the activation   method for usually,   wood decomposition mushrooms. So these are like wood decomposing, like oyster mushroom or shitake or lion's mate. The activation for that to fruit and make a mushroom is usually wanting to find more resources.  

Right? So then it makes the pruning body spores come out and then it could go colonize something else. So that's kind of straightforward, but the activation for chordae mbodetatus,   is really after the insect kills the insect off, Makes it insect death grip, you know,   a tree or a piece of plant that it like 2 meters high, and then it sprouts out of the brain,   And then it's boil it   back into the soil. Yeah. So how do you replicate this? It's just crazy. And that's why it's very it's it's, you know, 5 years ago, it was very difficult for companies that, now you're starting to see as people are sharing more information and like, colleges are talking more openly, you're starting to see more companies growing.   But at the end of the day, the reason we grow it is,   but we don't sell it in Europe, is that EFSA, the European Food Safety Authority,   has classified it as a unapproved novel food, meaning that according to EFSA, they don't see the safety trials yet, there to assure ensure safety. And it's not that they've looked at the data and said this is unsafe   it said that no one has really applied   That toxicity trial is to go, Hey, it is okay.  

Because that process in Europe is about 3, it took 5 years, and can cost 100 of 1,000 of euros, so,   And it just is a tough thing to do.   But in the UK, you know, we sell it in the US. We sell it, China. We sell it in South Korea. We sell it. So we have, we have markets outside of the Europe that we, that we work with Quartus Immiliopadas,   and we do give it away for free to European customers.   So you and any of your listeners that wanna send us a message and go, Hey, I just placed an order. Give me a bottle of Cortes Adelicaris. We'll happily throw it in for free. We can't sell it, but it's not like illegal. Right? It's not psychedelic mushrooms. It's not, there's nothing illegal about it. It just is that it's Unapproved for sale.   So we happily have customers that use it for workouts or, you know, one of the benefits of Cortes de Molittarius also is that it's, it's suppressing,   melatonin production, and many people don't know about this. So it also has a compound called Corticapine,   which is crossing the blood brain barrier. And we just recently found out what it does.  

It's really all that we know that it's interfering with is suppression of mela, of melatonin.   So if you take it too late, it it's really bad. You're gonna get your whole schedule mixed up. Yeah. When you take, some people really need that hormonal boost in the morning to suppress melatonin and get going. And so we have customers that are, you know, they have to take it every morning or they, it's very hard for them to get out of bed and function. So, you know, we, we still,   we have an obligation, I feel, as a company, right? I mean, we're not making shoes.   We're making medicine for people to help themselves get better.  

And so I don't, you know, money, money should come with that, but if, but if there's a situation where people really need that medicine, We're gonna we're gonna send it out there anyway.  

[00:50:01] Barry Luijbregts:

Okay. That's excellent to know. I will definitely   follow-up on that as well.   So as you are talking now about That's a side effect kinda. It's not really a side effect. It's a function of, of cordyceps   that it, suppresses melatonin as well.   What about other side effects and or drug interactions that these things can have? For instance, if you look at, lion's mane,   that might decrease blood clotting. Right? So I would love to give this to my dad for instance, but he's on a blood thinner medication.   So how does that work? Is it, is that possible?  

[00:50:35] Eric Puro:

Yeah, that's a good question. So this is of course like entering into the area where I have to say, No, I'm not a medical professional and all this, you know, caveats. Yeah. Because I think this is where things get really, you know, let's say   In my opinion, it gets really,   interesting.   So my my father also has   He's had a lot of heart attacks.   Mhmm. And for that reason, they give him blood thinning medication to help keep the make it easier for his heart to pump the blood. Yeah. And I said, you know, and pharmaceutical blood thinning medication, as you probably know, has a lot of side effects and it's not so great.   And my, my father's been struggling with those side effects of that medication   for the last, 2, 3 years. So I basically just said, Hey dad, Oh, actually you, you mentioned lion's mane, but chaga is a way better blood thinner, actually way better blood, blood tonic and blood thinner. And I said, dad, just take some chaga chaga supplement,   You know, start, you just have to thin your blood.  

I think it's gonna really help you. And he said, okay, sign up. I'll I'll I'll I'll try that out. I sent him all the paperwork. I sent him all the scientific studies. I let him make his own decision,   and he decided to try it. And it actually worked so well that when he went into his doctor, his doctor said like,   Dude, what are you doing here? This is, blood is so thin. If you prick, if someone pricks your finger, you might not clot that. Like you might, you actually have a problem here. And he goes, woah, okay. And his doctor goes, what what's hap? And he said, my son told me to take this chaga supplement, and it's supposed to be blood thinning. Doctor goes, stop that immediately. It's dangerous.   Oh. And I was thinking, stop the pharmaceutical   medicine. That's the dangerous stuff. You know, if you're able to wean yourself off that pharmaceutical medicine,   Why not do it if you can use a natural substance with very little side effects and only healthy side effects in a way?  

We've done toxicity trials on Chaga for the US market sales, and we have do what's called GRAS, or generally recognized as SAGE.   All of our products, all the dosing recommendations that we have, everything has been approved by 3 major PhDs with toxicology,   profession, you know, who do this kind of analysis.   So, you know, there's no side effects. There's no real danger there in a way.   At the doses that we recommend, of course, water could be toxic at too high doses. So you wanna be careful you're not taking too much, but, but But at the doses we recommend, totally safe, no, no harmful side effects that we know of, or, or toxicology knows of. So, and that's where I would say that If it was me designing, if it was myself needing to take blood thinners,   I would take the pharmaceutical blood thinners. I'd get myself safe. Then I would start to take Chaga and I would wean myself off the pharmaceutical drug centers. And I think that you just, you know, as long as you're checking in with your doctor and you have a way to test how sick your blood is and you feel safe, I'd say that this is a very important thing to, you know, take a little bit of your health in your own hands and find out the way to do it the best way, you know?  

Okay. Okay. That's a very good thing to be honest there. Yes. Because, yeah, I mean, the other thing is people who take chaga daily, Maybe they have a predisposition to thin blood. And as a company, these are deep podcasts I love. I love getting here because we can talk so openly about all this stuff here, But on our website, we can't say these things. Yeah. We're prevented from seeing any perceived health benefit.   So what that means is that, you know, there could be people who have thin blood, and that could be a danger for them who go who take Chaga, and then they actually   come to a problem in a way. Right? So that's why it's really important to understand what are all the benefits or, or for some people they could be, you know, harmful things. So I really appreciate that you do this and you, you create space for this kind of long form discussion around, around these, products.  



[00:54:10] Barry Luijbregts:

Yeah. And thank you also very much for being, so open about as well because I think it's very important. And these are kind of the things that are,   not talked about   as much because it's usually just the benefits. You know? So let let me touch on on one more thing that's kinda going around the Internet as well.   So all the mushrooms really that have these, beta,   glucans,   they   can also block what's called,   dihydrotestosterone   or DHT, tea, which is, catalysed from testosterone,   and high levels of this DHT are implicated in cases of, male pattern baldness   and also prostate growth. So if you lower that   DHT,   that could help with hair loss and some medications   like,   what's it called? Finesse   Finessereter   That does that. That reduces DHT,   but so that compounds in the functional mushrooms also does that.  

A possible side effect of lowering DHT   can also be loss of reduction or of libido.   So may be causing also in men,   erectile dysfunction, for instance. Is that something   that's a myth, or is that something that you've heard of more?  

[00:55:29] Eric Puro:

That's this is actually the 1st I've heard about this, to be honest. Okay.   I don't know. I mean, the internet says a lot of things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I wouldn't be surprised I mean, There's so many interactions when you're talking about compounds that are going into the blood brain barrier   that, that I think to say that we fully understand these mushrooms, I think is a lie.   Or else would it need the international feminist to the mushroom society continually putting out new papers? I mean, you know,   but I would say that Things that, that are always good to do, blood, blood check, blood markers. And so I take my blood test twice a year, and I'm checking for testosterone as a Thrown as a male in my thirties, late thirties, you know, and I I'm looking for all that, that, those kind of markers and I'm making sure that, You know, new supplements that I take in, I can take in not too many of the time to check to see how it's actually impacting my body.  

And I also have a personal health coach, which is helping me you those, those, those blood markers?   And I think that that's really the only safe way to do it because there probably are some people out there that taking Too high levels of beta glucan could suppress, like you just mentioned some, some element of testosterone, for sure. I think the, the implications that all these compounds have is We don't fully understand, you know, and I would say that in a, in a way it's the same with pharmaceutical drugs. It's the same with plant medicine. It's the same with alcohol that we take. It's the same with microdosing   LSD or psychedelics. I mean, there's just so many unknown factors that happen,   that some percentage of the population is always gonna have a negative reaction.  

And that's where it's up to, I think, us as persons to take that responsibility and go, Yeah, I need to be monitoring this a little bit, you know, and, and   I have a, I have a good friend here in Finland who he's had a larger social media biohacker kind of guy. And you know, what he's doing is he's always tasting,   the products before he's digesting them. So he's opening, he's chewing the tablet of vitamin D fish oil and all this kind of stuff, just to see how it tastes. And he said, it's amazing how much the body rejects certain,   different kind of supplements that he, he chooses,   it rancid or, you know, he, it tastes poisonous to him and, and he's, he's trusting this, like more intuitive type of way that, you know, Hey, this movie isn't for me. And I think that all of us need to find that, that sort of,   that level of being in touch with our, with our horse, you know, that we, that we know what's good for us. We know what's bad for us, and we start to, we start to move forward.  

For me, I know that cordyceps is actually pretty bad for me. Like, I just know that. I know when I take it, I have a lot of energy. I'm I'm a super energetic guy.   I I'm I'm out there. I'm pushing people and myself a lot. It's a quarter. It's too much.   It's too, I'm too much, too much Eric.   Yeah. You know, so, but, so with my wife, you know, it's for her. It's a, it's a wonderful medicine, you know, and It's also like like Reishi. I have a great night of sleep every night, you know? But Reishi for some people is helping improve r e non REM sleeping, deep sleep, up to like, can get an additional hour, you know, 2, 3 hours of deep sleep at night from, from taking rate sheets. I don't need it. So, because I can't tell the difference when I take it, when I don't, I don't take it, but because a lot of people can tell a difference, they take it. And but I think that, you know, as the world is moving forward, you know, we have these kind of outer rings, you know, that we can check our, our, our, our sleep metrics. I w we just wish the same, that we could have instant testosterone understanding,   you know, as well. I mean, I wish all these things would be more instant that we could understand why things are happening.  

No. So I think that that's up us. And I'd say any supplement you're taking, you need to figure out, you know, what is the level for you? Like vitamin D, for instance, here in Finland, they're recommending 5 micrograms per day, I think.   I took that when I moved here and I was like, okay, 5 micrograms, and that's all I need. You know, taking it all the time. I started getting my blood work done. Oh my God. I I'm, I'm feeling lethargic. I'm feeling a bit depressed. I'm this isn't me. What's going on when the winter comes?   And, and you look at Finland as a whole, and it's a country with that, You know, alcoholism goes way up in, in the winter. People are self medicating from the depression because of lack of vitamin D, and then it goes way down in the summer. Everyone's having a great time. And, you know, if the government just would say, I, I have to personally think of more than 50 micrograms,   for me to under, for, for me to know my body.  

But   That's the thing. You can't trust   even the Finnish government that you think these are scientists that know a lot about vitamin d supplements   are still getting it wrong here, you know? And, and we have to, we have to take responsibility for our, our, our own health in a way at the end of the day. So if you're noticing beta glucans are helping decrease your testosterone,   stop, definitely stop taking them. They're not for you. Find out, find out what is, you know?  

[01:00:07] Barry Luijbregts:

Yeah. Yeah. And I think, if that's the case, that's probably for a small number of people. And I am guessing that those people then also take way too much of,   of this type stuff. So like   chucking powder of lion's mane, for instance. But I think it's very important to,   Adhere to, the maximum doses as well or to the recommended doses   that are on the bottles here and on, on your products.   And like you say,   try to tap into that,   innate intelligence   that your horse, your body has,   and that, I think,   Somehow also communicates with the intelligence   in other things, like in the mushrooms, in supplements, in the food that you consume.  

Because, you know, you know, indeed,   when you put something in your mouth, hey, this is good for me, or this is not good for me.  

[01:00:56] Eric Puro:

Alright.  

[01:00:57] Barry Luijbregts:

So we've covered a lot of ground here.   I appreciate your openness,   about this a lot. And I hope that people Got a taste about how   important   these compounds can be for your overall health and for specific functions as well, like for my Lion's Mane specific function. Raixi for sleep, for instance.   Where can people go to learn more and to buy your products?  

[01:01:23] Eric Puro:

Yeah. So   we, as a, so as a company, we, we do   manufacturing   and extraction and then basically everything. So we,   we have our own branded products,   capamushrooms.com.   There, head there, take a look. We also have Instagram I'm in LinkedIn, all the socials. Yeah. Then you can find me also, ericmtpuro   on Instagram.   And then we are also   selling ingredients to other brands.   So it might be the case that the supplement brand you're already taking is probably our mushrooms. So we do a lot of work in Europe and the US to supply really high quality mushroom ingredients to other brands as well. So   just pure powder and, you know, a liquid extract isn't for you. That's what our brand is always gonna be. We're always gonna give just the basic mushroom,   to, to consumers that wanna just really fine tune what they want. But if you wanna have a mushroom coffee product or a cacao product, You could ask those companies where they get their mushrooms, and, and a lot of times it's probably gonna be Kappa. So then you still get the same quality, the same great quality, you know, ingredients,   maybe be in a form that's a bit easier for you to take or something like that. So, but in general, I mean, just, just really happy that people here are taking the time to learn about this stuff and, you know,   D DM me any questions. I'm super open for that. And,   happy to come on later, you know, talk, talk. There's a lot of mushrooms we didn't talk about and a lot of stuff we didn't, we didn't go in, and I'm happy to, if your listeners are interested, happy to have another episode too, anytime.  



[01:02:48] Barry Luijbregts:

Okay. We'll definitely do that. So if you have any questions, you can also send it to me, and I can collate them for, for part 2 Off, the mushroom talk.  

[01:02:59] Eric Puro:

Sounds good. K.  

[01:03:00] Barry Luijbregts:

Thank you so much for your time and your expertise.  

[01:03:05] Eric Puro:

Very absolute pleasure. Thanks for doing this.  

[01:03:08] Barry Luijbregts:

Thank you for spending time with me to learn about health and wellness.   For the full transcript and more content, visit improvingberry.com.   That is improvingb   a, double r, y.com.   And here is a disclaimer.   The information in this podcast is for general informational purposes only And does not constitute the practice of medicine,   nursing, or other professional health care services,   including the giving of medical advice,   And no doctor patient relationship is formed.   The use of information in this podcast is at the user's own risk. The content of this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice,   diagnosis, or treatment.  

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